Tuesday, February 26, 2013

Belief in Impending Arrival of Mashiah Up to 44%


Photo and caption: Israel Hayom

Israel Hayom, bemoaning the loss of rationalism in Israeli society:
The number of Jews who believed in the impending arrival of the Messiah grew from 33% in 1998 to 44% last year.
See previous posts about the percentage of Israelis who believe in Mashiah's coming in general here and here.  It seems that in the survey above, they were asked if they believe in the impending arrival of Mashiah.

This is an amazing, but not altogether surprising, statistic.

13 Comments:

At Wed Feb 27, 11:03:00 AM 2013, Blogger Cosmic X said...

I saw that too. I think that to believe in the impending coming of Mashiach is quite rational!

 
At Wed Feb 27, 11:24:00 AM 2013, Blogger yaak said...

:-) Me too.

 
At Wed Feb 27, 11:25:00 AM 2013, Blogger T.P.V said...

plan not to send Bochurim to learn in Eretz yisrael

 
At Thu Feb 28, 11:35:00 PM 2013, Anonymous fred said...

Since rationality is belief based on evindence and reasoning, there is nothing rational about the belief in a the impending arrival of a messiah.

 
At Fri Mar 01, 05:59:00 AM 2013, Blogger yaak said...

Au contraire. Just look at world events. It is obvious that it is all directed by HKB"H and has to be coming to a climax soon.

 
At Sat Mar 02, 12:42:00 AM 2013, Anonymous fred said...

Yaak, please elaborate as to what events you are referring to. I am unaware of even one single event or chain of events that require the intervention of a supernatural being.

 
At Sat Mar 02, 04:19:00 PM 2013, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

On the exact same day that a meteor exploded into tiny little meteorites injuring over 1000 people in the Ural Mountains, there was the closest ever observed passby by a large asteroid (45 meters long) in the history of observing such phenomena. And then similar unrelated meteors were observed over San Francisco and one other large city. What are the odds of this being a coincidence?

After Hurricane Sandy on the 14th of Cheshvan, one of the most unusual hurricanes in the last 250 years, within one month we had

0. the re-election of Obama because he looked so presidential because of the hurricane.
1. The Gaza War
2. The surrender by Bibi Netanyahu on the 8th day of that war, the 7th or 8th of Kislev.
4. The Likud primaries four days later in which Feiglin received 18 out of 19 spots
5. On the 15th of Kislev (November 29th), the UN General Assembly tried to redivide Eretz Yisrael into Palestine again just like they did in 1947.
If you can't see the Hand of G-d in these events, then you are losing out.

 
At Sun Mar 03, 04:49:00 AM 2013, Anonymous fred said...

Dov, you seem to be deluding yourself since not one of those events required supernatural intervention.

One general point that I'd like to make is unlikely occurrences need to be distinguished from miracles. Unlikely occurrences happen all the time and there's nothing miraculous nor supernatural about them.

 
At Sun Mar 03, 07:10:00 AM 2013, Blogger yaak said...

Fred, you said:
Yaak, please elaborate as to what events you are referring to. I am unaware of even one single event or chain of events that require the intervention of a supernatural being.

This statement seems to stem from a misunderstanding of the whole idea of Mashiah. Mashiah is not a supernatural being. He is a person like you and me. His arrival may or not be a supernatural event, depending on our merits.

After R' Dov enumerated a list of recent events, you consider the unlikely occurrences as not miraculous. Would you consider the Purim story "nothing miraculous or supernatural about them" as well?

 
At Sun Mar 03, 08:38:00 AM 2013, Anonymous fred said...

Yaak, I was simply responding to your statement that said:

"Just look at world events. It is obvious that it is all directed by HKB"H and has to be coming to a climax soon."

I asked for examples and Dov provided what he thought were examples which I explained were not examples of what he claimed.

I didn't make any assertion about the nature of the Mashiach. Any assumptions one makes or beliefs in such a person is purely faith-based with absolutely no evidence and hence not rational.

As far as your question about the Purim story is concerned, I actually, I don't consider the Purim story to be anything more than that - a story in the same sense as a historical novel. Hence your question is irrelevant to the discussion.

I therefore return to my original question:

Please provide rational examples to backup your claim that "It is obvious that it [ie. world events] is all directed by HKB"H and has to be coming to a climax soon."?

 
At Sun Mar 03, 10:11:00 AM 2013, Blogger yaak said...

Fred,

For someone who has a hard time accepting the rationality of HKB"H's hand in the Purim story, I would imagine it would be very difficult finding any rationality in showing today's events related to any redemptive process.

I encourage you to read up on how our sages viewed the Purim story and how they view Mashiah, including the rationalists Rambam and Ibn Ezra. Then, come back to me.

 
At Sun Mar 03, 02:05:00 PM 2013, Anonymous fred said...

You misunderstood my point. The Purim story is fictional. Hence, my starting point differs greatly from those of the "sages" that you mention. Their starting point is that it was historical fact.

Clearly our views of fact, history and rationality differ so greatly that there is no point in me continuing this discussion with you and so this will be my final comment on the subject.

 
At Sun Mar 03, 02:36:00 PM 2013, Blogger yaak said...

I agree that there is no way to bridge the gap between us until Mashiah comes.

May you see the error in your ways bimhera veyamenu, Amen.

 

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